Let's talk a bit about these narratives because I'm very interested in these sort of intra and Inter relational narratives that come in and out of your office. There's a form of psychotherapy. I'm sure that only deals with the relationship, with one's self. And undoubtedly, there must be a lot of good that comes. That but you don't view it as a vacuum. You don't really think that it is possible to Simply Better one's life. By bettering your relationship with yourself. Is that a fair assessment?

Yes, and I would say that the very framework of bettering your relationship with yourself, is in itself, a cultural narrative. That's a construct. That's exactly what happened in the last 50 years. Suddenly, this thing veteran, your relationship with yourself feeling good about myself. Elf becomes an organizing principle rather than feeling good about how I act towards others is my organizing principle or feeling good about how I stand below. (expletive) is my organizing principle. So, I think there's an emphasis. Nobody just looks at herself and doesn't see it the relationships to others, but there's an emphasis and one my emphasis is the constant dual track between An intra personal and interpersonal between what's happening inside. And how, what is happening inside? Is affecting my relationship with others. I can't think about one without, thinking about the other, because, I don't fundamentally believe that one can know oneself without knowing oneself in relationships to other. Now, that is a construct to, it happens to be the one that I work and think by That is not a truth. That just is the way that I organized relational thinking. I think of people as relational beings when you talk about your father and we especially when you talk about the way that you looked at. These other men did me. This is a beautiful example of how you say, this is how I felt and I know that you're feeling sits on a cultural message that the narratives the frames with which we interpret. Give meaning and give value that, the things that are happening to us. They don't just come from us. They come from a combination of the collective manufacturing and the personal responses to it. It's always both. It is that clear, it

actually is.