Small Tweaks Add Up To Big Health Wins – Max Lugavere with Dave Asprey

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today's guest is a filmmaker a health and science journalist and a New York Times bestselling author named Max Luca Vera.

He's a son who watched his mother make all the right choices in life and still get early onset dementia and other health problems decided he's going to go out and hack his mom. So he wrote a book called genius foods and has been a long time bulletproof follower and friend and Max welcome to the show to talk about your new book The Genius life.

Thanks so much day for having me. I think the last time I was on was about five years ago when I was up in Vancouver at your lab.

And we I filmed you remember for vice. Yep. That was a real that was a blast. So it's great to it feels like a homecoming in a way to be

back. It's hard to believe it's been five years. So it's about time to have you back on that was episode 229 or talked about dementia aerobic or anaerobic exercise and and bread head which was documented you're working on but you've come back and you spent five years doing research and all looking at

at areas where we both have a lot of interest and listeners I think have heard a lot about this but you you looked at circadian biology and psychology and dementia and making brains work better which we both care about and you put it through the lens of how do we prevent dementia? So people have read my book headstrong know that I covered some of the topics that you covered in a different way, but you've gone deep on psychology and Deep Run circadian, so I think there's some

Findings here and some areas where we disagree and I'm hoping to find some where we disagree so we can have a spirited debate about how you actually should be eating popcorn to fix Alzheimer's or something. That's your argument. Not mine. Anyhow, welcome to the show my friend.

Thanks for having me. It's good to be back. I think it's you know, whenever we you're talking to somebody who's as well-versed as you are. It's always great to have disagreements because I think you end up it ends up strengthening the science and you end up coming out ahead because you actually learn

Nothing, and that's ultimately what I'm in this for its to learn its to continue to expand my knowledge base so that I can live a healthier life and hopefully not have to contend with some of the conditions that my mom developed early in her life. So yeah, it's good to be here and I'm excited to talk to you about my new book The Genius

life. It's amazing what that enlightened quest for self-preservation can drive us to do. I mean that a lot of the the bulletproof learnings were. Hey, I'm tired of being fat and tired and

Pain and all that so you start to do it and when you're saying hey, this happened to my mom, I don't want this rise. How do I help my mom? And how do I buy doing that help myself? And that's a very Noble and very highly motivating thing that I think a lot of people don't recognize it's okay to be selfish because look not dying is the number one drive of humans. So and that's good all life forms of that that said we will choose to die if it's to protect our community or our

Ian or to make a self-sacrifice and that's why we we really what's the word. I'm looking for a ward or just honor when someone decides that they're going to do that because they overcame our most basic biological drive. So you and me we harnessed our I don't want to die and I don't want to suffer along the way and then we're able to use that to help other

people. Yeah exists. So well said, I mean I've been very lucky in that. I've never dealt with any major medical concerns personally, but my mother who is the person who I love most in the world.

When I was in my mid-20s, my mom who is about 58 at the time began to show the earliest symptoms of what would ultimately be diagnosed as a form of dementia. Now, I like I think a lot of younger people thought that dementia is something that happens inevitably as a natural aspect of Aging or it's an old person's disease or its genetic. So those three misconceptions that I harbored I learned very early on we're mistruths. So my mom was not old. She had all of the pigments in

her hair. She was a youthful spirited woman from New York City and I had no prior family history of any type of neurodegenerative condition. In fact dementia. When I thought about what dementia meant to me. I had seen an Addams Family movie in the early 90s and dementia was the character that Uncle Fester, um actually had a crush on so that's what I thought about dementia at the time. That's what that word evoked in my head. That's fantastic.

Yeah, if you run all about dementia and Uncle Fester, but yeah, I got you.

Yeah, so so I was just I was just completely ignorant of the condition and when my mom first began to show these symptoms, it caught me in my family completely off guard to the point that we actually didn't believe her at first that she was actually struggling with her cognition that her brain was actually in the middle of a crisis and we were impervious to it. So

I ended up going with my mom to Major Medical institutions. We began the journey in New York City, which is where my mom was living at the time and to see your mom begin to stutter and slow down almost as if she had had a brain transplant with somebody 40 to 50 years her senior. I mean it is the most surreal thing to to witness and so at a certain point I realized that I had to step in and get involved and I started going with my mom to these doctors appointments and we began in New York.

And in every doctor's office what I experienced I've come to call diagnose and adios essentially a doctor would try to come up with some kind of label that they would apply to the slew of symptoms that my mom was experiencing. But my mom had an atypical Presentation of Dementia and so we actually didn't get a diagnosis until we went to the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio and it was there for the first time that my mom was diagnosed with a neurodegenerative condition and she was prescribed drugs for both Parkinson's disease and

Alzheimer's disease and that was the Line in the Sand for me. It was a it was the first time in my life that I'd ever had had a panic attack. And from that point on I became dedicated to investigating why this would have happened to my mom at such a young age. And what could be done. If anything to prevent it from happening to myself and others that I care about quick shout out for you to thank you for your support of

superhuman my new anti-aging book it hit the New York Times list for two weeks in a row, which is something that's unheard of for a book in the

Anti-aging field even a few years ago and this is because our perception of Aging has changed and I like to think bulletproof radio has played a part in that when you read superhuman if you haven't already purchased it you are going to understand that your body can do more than you ever thought and that we actually know why we age now and it's not just one thing. It's seven things in the book teaches you how to avoid the four things that are most likely to kill you if your average newsflash, you're not average you listen to bulletproof radio and even then,

You want to avoid the four killers and then Shore up the Seven Pillars the things that are supporting your aging tell you exactly how to do it things that are free things that are low cost and things that crazy people do with way too much money and I went out and I did as many of those as I could find and afford so that I can tell you the story of doing them. It's really easy to read and it's got stuff for you. So check it out. If you haven't already it's called superhuman. You can pick it up on Dave

asprey.com. You can pick it up anywhere books are sold and I didn't have a background in medicine. I didn't have a

Background as an academic scientist. I was a lay person but I did have a background in journalism. And so I use the tools that I had harnessed working for six years for a news and Information Network to begin to look into the medical literature. And although it was tricky at first I then began to exploit my media credentials to then reach out to researchers and experts all around the world. And so at this point I've had a tremendous amount of exposure to the topic. I've been able to obviously write extensively on the topic I wrote

My first book the G genius foods, which is now published in eight languages in my second book The Genius life, but even aside from literature aimed at at laypeople. I've also been able to publish peer-reviewed literature. I was able to co-author a chapter in a textbook actually geared towards psychologists on how to manage people who are at risk for developing cognitive decline and dementia, so it's been a really it's been a painful Journey, but at least I've

Been able to sort of funnel some of the the pain and frustration that I experienced with my mom into something that I feel is Meaningful and ultimately able to help others. Do you still get panic attacks? You know, I have not really had a panic attack like the one that I had in that hotel room with my mom and the best way that I could describe it because I had never had one previously. It's sort of like when you have one it's sort of like that scene in the movie Saving Private Ryan on the beach with me.

Ten minutes of the movie where all of a sudden all of the noise all of the dramatic music Fades out and all you hear is is high-pitched tone. And you see the guy holding his shoulder looking for his arm on the beach like you just hear that tone. You don't hear anything else. It's basically like just where's my where's my arm what have you know, it's like it doesn't even process that the guy has lost his arm and that's what it feels like and I haven't I haven't had one since thankfully but that really was the motivating. I mean that was it for me.

It's one of those things because in your book you talk about

psychology of all this stuff and all and you know, there's there's a deep there's a deep-seated thing that happens with panic attacks, you know where it's pushing old automatic buttons in the system and the the definition of biohacking that's you're now out in the world is you can change the environment inside and outside of your body so that you have full control of your own biology and you know part of that control is the psychological control in the genius life you talk about psychology that I'm sort of

What have you learned around the psychological side of your environment and what that does to reduce panic attacks or just anxiety and

stress? Yeah, that's such a good question. I mean one of the major topics that I advance in the genius life that I think is really cool and I haven't seen it really mentioned by other health writers and certainly not in other books, but this notion of cross adaptation and I'll tell you why I think this is so important. So, you know, there are certain stressors that are inevitable and we all talk about how

we should minimize chronic stress and things like that, but there are certain stimuli that are just inevitable part of daily life. I mean think about what we're going through now all collectively with the covid-19 pandemic right certain things. You just can't wish away. And so I think in those instances what can really help you cope with stress is to become more resilient. So those are the two ways that you can deal with stress. You can either remove this the stressful stimuli or you can become more resilient to that stimuli so that it actually doesn't have the same.

Effect that doesn't actually stress you out and I think that what I've worked hard to do over the past couple of years is to really boost my resilience to stress and I've done that using a number of different modalities, but the reason that I've really focused on the resilience aspect of things is because my mom had a chronic degenerative condition and ultimately she passed away about a year and a half ago to another terminal illness. She was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.

Sir, so my life over the past couple of years has been incredibly traumatic and stressful and the only way that I could really deal with that is not to remove the stress because the stress was always there and I think a lot of people deal with stress they deal with with sick loved ones. They deal with financial stress and things like that. What I did was I decided to boost my resilience and that's where cross adaptation comes in. So with modalities like physical exercise with cold immersion or cryotherapy or even heat stress with saunas for

Or what you can do is you can boost your resilience to and your acclimation to these physical stressors, which then has a spillover effect and that's spillover effect is called cross adaptation. So by adapting to the stresses imposed with exercise or with heat stress, you actually become more psychologically resilient, which I think is a very powerful and empowering idea. And this is one of the reasons why they're doing research now and I think that they're seeing modalities like cold therapy.

P or heat stress associated with dramatic reductions in symptoms of depression now, we're how would those two? You know, how would you how would where would that connection Li what would the mechanism there be and I think the mechanism is that you're strengthening, you know your brain and your fortifying your mental health while you're fortifying your physical health, which is something that is a it's not super intuitive. But I think very empowering them the

less the idea of using heat.

Dress and cold stress and even hypoxia a lack of oxygen stress. Those are things that we do at upgrade Labs. You kind of core bio hacking techniques and we know that they make your mitochondria work better. We know that they can can make yourselves clean themselves out and things like that. What research did you find specifically around the psychology of those things around what they're doing to those mental States? I mean are there studies that say depressed people take cold showers they get

better. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a researcher named Charles Rice on I forget what university he's out of it's all right, Ira is oh n and he's done a number of studies with sauna therapy and he's showing that just using a sauna can have a an effect at on symptoms of depression. That is I believe something like to fold higher to fold its twofold more effective compared to standard.

Standard of care treatment so pharmaceutical treatment and the beautiful thing about that is that you know pharmaceutical treatment. Although it is effective the more severe the depression, you know, these treatments are not without side effects there have also been a number of case reports coming out showing that cold water swimming. So like winter swimming has powerfully is powerful as a therapeutic for depression as well. So both of these modalities, I think

The science is you know, the story is just being written and it's continually evolving but there is a signal in the literature that I think is beginning to emerge where by exposing our bodies to physical stress sitting in a sauna cryotherapy that it seems to really fortify mental health and to reduce symptoms of depression now physical exercise. This has been well documented. So there have been a number of meta-analysis published over the past year showing us that whatever your exercise modality.

choice is whether it's aerobic exercise or resistance training that they it all seems to be effective in terms of reducing symptoms of depression reducing symptoms of anxiety for patients with just, you know, run of the mill, you know mood mood swings, but then also with clinical depression as well and I think that the same mechanism applies, I mean exercise floods your brain with bdnf it makes

Your brain more plastic and we know that neuroplasticity is important for it's a it's an important means of, you know, helping your brain rewire. And so sometimes boosting bdnf, which is the brains Miracle-Gro protein has been suggested as one of the mechanisms by which actually some of these pharmaceutical drugs to work in some in some patients. It's drugs like yeah.

It's interesting because most of the psychedelics increase bdnf lion's mane mushroom.

Is in some studies reported dude, I couldn't feel any difference from it. And then I found an Australian varieties. I've talked about on the show before from life cycle that really seems to make a difference electrical stimulation over the brain raises b d and f so, there's all these different things and all of them seem to help with nerve growth factor and bdnf which is fantastic. In fact, there's a supplement that does four times more bdnf than exercise, but what I've never been able to find

Even from that the study about that. This is an extract of the fruit around coffee. It's called neuro Masters one that that that I manufacturer that bulletproof manufacturers that I helped to create. The question though is in those studies with those claims. I don't know what kind of exercise they were comparing it to and when you say exercise what the hell do you mean because does this mean like a you know, I I'm going to lift heavy today or is this like, you know, I'm gonna you know, go run 500 miles and you know,

And all the things Jazzercise like what is exercise mean in the context of bdnf because I honestly feel like there's a lot of like kind of kale kale is good for you like actually no, it's not like maybe a little bit whatever but like what really is exercised in the context of the way you think about it for the genius life when I have my answer, but I want to know your answer.

Yeah, so I'm actually not a fan of doing cardio. I don't really do cardio. I try to be more active in my in my day-to-day life. So one of the

The types of physical activity that I talked about in The Genius life is non exercise physical activity, which I think is crucially important. So this is actually not exercise but this is just, you know ranging from chasing your kid or your cat around the house to doing chores doing laundry even typing to some degree just staying active like anything other than sitting on the couch and watching Curb Your Enthusiasm reruns is going to be good for the brain because just moving simple daily spontaneous movements create micro vacillations in your blood pressure that push fresh blood and

An oxygen up to the brain, so that is like that should be that's like the base of the Pyramid of physical awesomeness. Let's just call it. So these non non exercise physical activities when it comes to exercise if you're getting if you're doing a lot of non exercise physical activity, then I don't think that you need to do cardio. If you're not training for endurance purposes. If you are sedentary all day, you know, and there are there's a significant portion of the population that are you know it

Actually desk jockeys, then I think to give your cardiovascular system of work out once in a while. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I just think that there's probably diminishing returns and at a certain point excess cardio can lead to scarring of the cardiac tissue. It can negatively affect your joints and I personally find that running is compressive on my lower back. So I have low back issues. I don't actually like to run but I will occasionally do an elliptical end, you know to be honest as much as I

Doing cardio speaking anecdotally when I spend an extended period of time being sedentary which by the way, we know that being sedentary literally drains blood from your brain. I actually tend to find myself that that I'm I develop headaches when I'm sedentary for an extended period of time and for me going to the gym and doing a little bit of cardio 10 to 20 minutes again, this is an anecdote can actually make my brain feel a lot better now where I really put emphasis is is resistance training and I might have

A bias for resistance training because I just grew up very interested in bodybuilding. It's just something that I you know, as a as a teen, I became sort of interested in but I think that the research really seems to be coming out by the day validating that resistance training not only has been underappreciated in the literature, especially where the brain is concerned but I mean growing stronger bigger muscles one of the best things that you can do for metabolic Health reduce inflammation to continue to be mobile as you age and we know that age-related sarcopenia is a

Thing I think having more muscle more strength on your body can it's it really can't be underrated. I mean if you think about just the mere fact that having more muscle means greater a greater ability to dispose of glucose. I think right there makes it worth getting to the gym, you know, just for that reason alone. Your body has a very limited capacity to store sugar in terms of its ability to store Sugar your body's like a New York City Apartment. There's just not a lot of

Places to cram the glucose that most of us are consuming, you know with every meal so your liver can store about a hundred grams your musculature can store, you know, 300 to 400 450 depending on how big you are how much muscle you have but for your average American who's consuming 300 grams of carbohydrates every single day. I think it's it's important to kind of take note of the fact that like that is where we are able to store Sugar and so to have those Banks and then to use the sugar

Early with resistance training or high intensity interval training. It's going to I think be a reasonable way for most people to kind of make room for the sugar and the glucose in the starch that inevitably is going to find its way onto people's plates. All right, so that the bulletproof recommendations is

totally aligned at by it's

a

extensive cardio is just not good for you. There's a couple studies that show extensive cardia May lengthen telomeres, but there's

Other ways to do it superhuman. I read about you know a peptides. It's 50 bucks. You can inject their supplements. There's sleep is all kinds of things. So unnecessary and comes at a great cost in Game Changers attack about 80% of people who start running into up injured in the first year anyway, and there's another law and Game Changers about how chronic pain and injuries sucks energy all the time until you deal with it. So it just seems like the ROI is low. If you're say I'm going to quote get healthy and there's a little

Of emotion for me in this because when I weigh 300 pounds, I went on a low-fat low-calorie diet and I started exercising an hour and a half a day and lo and behold to 18 months later. I still weighed 300 pounds. I could max out all the machines at the gym, but my joints were worse and I've actually done harm to my health from this. So this idea that I'm going to get healthy. So I'm going to you know, go plant-based and I'm going to go run all the time. It's actually like slapping your

Yourself in the face. It isn't the way that your body responds. So we we fully agree on on that perspective of chronic cardio isn't going to do it. We agree on high intensity interval training. We agree on some amount of weight training. What's the right amount of weight training how many days a week?

Well, I mean, I think it's you know, I definitely have an ear to the ground when it comes to Fitness and what the the research on Just Fitness, you know, like

What we get from some of our top exercise scientists and I think it really depends on each person. But the more adapted you are to resistance training. I think the more you can do like the higher, you know, the intensity that you can stand and in fact the higher intensity you need to continue to grow and to get stronger. So it's this concept of progressive overload. So whether it's volume or intensity, you know, I think with increasing Fitness, I think you have an increasing work capacity and you know, I

I think that's really what you've got to you've got to build your workout routine around that where you are in terms of your own personal fitness. So for me personally, I've been hitting the weights for a decade at this point, if not more almost two decades. And and so I feel that I can you know, go to the gym five six days a week and so long as I'm sleeping properly. I'm not consuming alcohol. I'm consuming enough calories enough protein. I feel like

body is pretty amenable to that level of work and it allows me to maintain a good body composition to body composition that I'm happy with and you know, all of my blood work is you know near optimal for at least what I can remember in recent and you know over the past couple of times I've done blood draws and I it allows for this without me having to obsess over macros and

Therese and things like that now I think if you're first starting out, then you want to build an aerobic base and you don't have to do cardio to do that. I think you can do that doing resistance training. You also want to establish muscular control stability and things like that because as you mentioned people who just jump right into these workout routines and especially running the end up hurting themselves within the first year, so I think it's going to be different for every for every single person but generally,

The recommendation from you know from at least from the American Academy of Neurology, which recently updated the guidelines because they they determined that exercise can be a powerful disease modifying treatment for mild cognitive impairment. It's about a hundred fifty minutes a week. So that's generally the sort of that's the general guideline try to get a hundred and fifty minutes a week of some kind of exercise.

All right, my recommendations there were 20 minutes of movement a day and then twice a week high intensity interval training is the minimum necessary. So it's less than a hundred and fifty but not that far off because 20 minutes times 7 is a hundred and forty minutes. It's just is it early exercise if you're going for a walk? I don't know.

No, it

isn't however for that hundred and fifty number. I think it counts. It's that idea of movement versus true exercise. You have to be on a treadmill going fast or is just a walk.

It seems walks. Okay.

Well, yeah, there's there's different like I mean, I think that that's where you really ought to do kind of all of the things because you're working out different energy systems for one. So when you're doing high intensity glycolytic hit training you're working out, you know, your phosphagen, you know Energy System, which utilizes creatine you're working at your glycolytic Pathways, but then the more low and slow movements, which I really

Of like walking as you said you're burning your oxidizing primarily fat, it's not necessarily a cardio workout. It's not resistance training. But you know your it's great for your cardiovascular system. It's great for mobilizing lymph fluid around the body and for pushing blood up to the brain. So that's why I think it's important to the non physical activity is a crucial that's like sort of the base of the pyramid. I think resistance training is crucial high intensity interval training is crucial and you can kind of do them in a way.

Where your resistance training could have a cardio aspect to it, you know, like your heart rate is definitely going to increase but you know, it depends on your goals. There was actually there was a great I was listening to a lecture recently by Pavel Tatsu lean who's like this world-renowned strength coach and he was saying that you know, if your if your goals are to put on Purely strength and you can stand to have longer rest periods in between your sets, but that's not necessarily going to give you the cardio workout that you're going to get with a more circuit like routine.

So I think kind of balancing all of those teachings for your goals is important, but at the end of the day ultimately over the course of the week, you want to get a little bit of cardio you want to get the resistance training you want to do some high intensity interval training and just generally you want to be sedentary as little as possible.

It's time for a tough question though. It's easy to talk about exercise and all that stuff. Are you actively dating someone now?

It's time for a tough question. It's easy to talk about exercise and all that stuff. Are you actively dating someone now?

I'm not actually but I'm looking.

All right that you just put the word out there. There's only like a half a million listening right now. I just want to post her phone number I'm kidding but I mean you are apparently I've heard from a few women an attractive man. Mostly because of the tousled hair that you've got there Max. Oh, so you've nailed that?

But I do find that single guys are like have five days a week in the gym is good. And this also I'm guessing you already know this because we're friends you don't have

kids don't have kids but I do have a cat that I share with my little brother and she's sort of like a she's a fur baby. But no, I don't I don't have kids and I have a girlfriend. So yeah, it

starts so so I would have had similar answers when I was single or even heck when I was dating right? It's pretty easy if you have two adults and I'll look we share a place. I'm going to go hit the gym.

Wanna come with me honey and like it works, but then all the sudden. Hey, do you want to watch you know our Offspring will I go to the gym and it's like actually no I'm too tired to watch them and interested to go to the gym. So I find that in phases of life. It goes from this have five days a week. I see very few people who are raising families and have careers who can go to the gym five days a week. I mean Tim Chang from Mayfield who I've been friends with for like 25 years and I think something like that.

Actually pulled that off but he's still spending, you know 90. I think it's around 90 minutes a day on that stuff. But he's you know General partner at a big VC and somehow he's managed his life. So he has, you know kids in portfolio companies and enough time. But I mean, I work on that I love the middle of nowhere. I don't work at 90 minutes of Dad. Don't think it even be good for me if I did maybe 45 minutes a day if I'm lucky of some biohacking. What else do you do like on a daily basis? How much time do you spend between all these things saunas? Oh, there's

30 minutes, you're like I've got to take a shower take that 45 minutes from red light therapy is another 25 minutes like so how many hours a day do you really spend on, you know being youthful

the I'm so glad that you asked and you're right that I'm pretty privileged that I don't have a ton of personal commitments that I can really focus on this but I will say that and this is going to sound a little cliche. But you know when they say in an airplane, you got to put your mask on first before you you know should offer.

Help to those around you. I truly believe having gone through something that is is as stressful. If not more than something that anybody will ever experience over the past year that what kept me sane throughout what I experienced with. My mom was the fact that I was able to and that I forced myself ultimately to take at least a half an hour every day to do some kind of exercise now you don't have to go to the gym to do this.

You can do bodyweight exercises. I actually just before things got really crazy with the covid-19 thing I went and I got some workout equipment for my for my house and it's not an extensive amount of equipment all I bought. I bought two kettlebells and you'd be surprised with what you can do with two to kettlebells. Did you get the pink ones?

I didn't get the pink ones Man II was I've been looking at some of those pink ones and those are the best ones kidding. Okay. I always I always laugh for some reason if they're five pounds, they're always pink and it turns out five pound kettlebells are really useful for a lot of exercises, especially if using Blood Flow Restriction, so it I was just laughs. Um, I just wanted a normal-looking one. I didn't want to look like some sort of, you know way overpriced, you know, zombie face or something. I just wanted a kettlebell and just like a plain old metal one. I guess I'm too.

You know to plane. All right, so you got a couple of categories. What do you do with them?

Yeah. Well, well let me so just to close the loop, you know, there's a lot like a lot of the pathways that get stimulated when you're sitting in a sauna for example, also get activated during exercise. So heat shock proteins. So I'm sure you've talked about heat shock proteins I talk about in my book in the fact that they have this ability to act like a buttress against other proteins in your body that may have a tendency to miss fold and Clump and Aggregate and form plaques like amyloid beta or Tau which we are the two proteins.

Kind of characterize the pathologies that we see in the brains of patients with Alzheimer's disease when you're doing physical exercise high intensity interval training resistance training, you're basically and you're and you're elevating your core body temperature you're activating those same protein so you don't have to do it all I think it's important to take a triage approach and at the very top of that of that hierarchy, I would say that just in terms of the the evidence the level of evidence physical exercise really should be the one thing, of course.

Prioritizing sleep that is crucially important as well. But everybody generally blocks off a third of their day around to to sleep every night and we can go into ways of improving your sleep, which is another topic that I cover in the genius life, but generally in terms of the things that you can Will yourself to do everyday that are going to have an you know, an Entourage effect a spillover effect where it's going to be the tide that lifts all the boats in your Harbor. I think that doing physical exercise committing to a

Now a day is going to really give you the most bang for your buck that you can you know that you can wish for and it's can improve all of the other aspects of your life. So it's going to improve what you're able to give to your to your loved ones to your to your job. I wouldn't be where I am professionally or personally without without exercise. I do it primarily for my mental health and for that cross adaptation effect and with the kettlebells, what I do is I have a really simple routine. So I just have to kettlebells. They're not even very heavy there about

18 pounds each and I'll do a circuit because of course. I'm working out at home. Now where alternate shoulder presses with some bent over rows with some push-ups on the using the handles of the kettlebells, and then I'll do some lunges and some squats. I don't actually I'm not like a big kettle bell like Enthusiast. So I don't know the appropriate names for all of the different moves, but you can you can get a legitimate full body workout with kettlebells, and they

Have to be that heavy you just do as many reps as you can. Yeah, they're they're solid and

that the set of stuff you're doing there that works and the kids all the core muscles probably the kettlebell swing you probably know that one. It is good for your dating life. If nothing else because there's a stairwell that I'm seriously there's a hip thrust there. That's probably useful but you know, you're standing you swing the Kettlebell between but what it does for your your butt and for just your whole back I

Definitely am a fan of the kettlebell swing just for core stability and strength as well as from shoulders and then you know the Turkish getup. I don't know how to do that. Actually. I've

never I've never done one. I have low back problems. So kind of like

can't swing that yeah.

Yeah. It's a little bit sometimes sometimes I'm comfortable swinging but it's not always predictable like my form I think is very good. But sometimes I can't predict and sometimes I'll be doing it with great form and I'd there's just a little bit of pain but

The Turkish getup is very interesting. I haven't tried that

yet. Yeah hit that up on YouTube. I'm just all kinds of videos for it. But that one's I don't do it regularly, but I got into it a few years ago. Just as I was looking at the most efficient effective kinds of exercise by the way news flash. It's Blood Flow Restriction or electrical stimulation or using non gravity-based feedback are the ones that give me the most most thing the most Returns on investment but the Turkish getup you probably could do with your bad.

Back, but you're basically like starting out on the floor and holding in a certain position as you get up off the floor and man that pushes buttons in the body that nothing else does so I got to say for anyone listening you have a kettlebell, you're stuck at home because of the whole virus thing man. Maybe maybe that's the way to do do what Max is talking about here and get your exercise then

yeah home workouts are there they're important especially these days and you know, the link between exercise and mental health really can't be